... I need you to read with an open mind so you don't misunderstand and get me wrong.
"Friendship is a relationship with both parties giving to the other. I learned that a friend is someone who I would freely give my life for and without asking I know that my friend would do the same for me. A friend is also someone who we are comfortable sharing our hearts with and who handles our heart with gentleness while we do the same with theirs."
Have been pondering on that massage for a while now. It has been clear that I have been missing the value of friendship since I have never really refereed to it with such depth and honer, not to mention the challenge of keeping with this pace. That was sent as an assurance of a continues friendship now that the other part is no longer a mamber in this site.
Now the question I wanna ask you folks is:
Could friendship be having more value and meaning than we could have anticipated?
If the answer to the above question is 'yes' then why would two precious friends risk losing this by suggestion taking things to the next level, knowing very well that failure to make the relationship work for whatever reason, the two are not gonna only lose the failed relationship, the very precious friendship that has meant so much on both parties stands to be lost too. One (if not both) may no longer be comfortable to pour his/her heart to the other like they did before they took things on the next level.
NB... Don't get me wrong please, no one has suggested taking things to the next level. Sercumnstances won't allow anyway since there's weigh too much to consider not to mention the age difference inspite of how well we do interact.
Seems like there's more value on friendship than relationship taking from the opening massage and the experience that has came with before and after it was sent me.
Care to share your view please with your experiences of friendship that you've had with an opposite sex wereby inspite of the boundries and sercumnstances that wouldn't have allowed the two to have what is refered to as 'being more than friends' both parties were still content with what they currently had, and felt the importance of keeping things this way fore 'friendship' showed to have far greater meaning and value than any other form of relationship the two could have ever have.
Thank you for opening up to my request... You welcome to ask for more clarity if you kinda missed what i'm try to ask or say.
Sisygirl my friend........you are complex, yet gentle of spirit and heart....God bless you!
I felt compelled to jump in here.....heart first(smile)! The already thin line between a sincere and giving, "platonic friendship" and a relationship that began as mutual friends, but now has the propensity to become "romantic" in nature.....only gets thinner as emotions from either party changes!
What I'm trying to say is that a pure platonic friendship will ALWAYS, whether there's age or cultural differences, have the ability to become "something else", depending on the desires of those involved. Perfect example......many on this site have said in their profiles that they're looking for a friendship that will hopefully blossom into something deeper, hopefully ending in matrimony! Well that's more than likely possible if both parties are on the same page.....wanting the process to move along in the same vain.
Now if one party in a platonic relationship, is only wanting to be just "friends", yet the other is starting to feel they want "more", then there the controversy begins! It is a risk to take but to that individual, it's more than worth it! If honesty has been one of the main bedrocks of your "friendship", whether platonic or with the possibility of romance, communicating your wants and desires from the onset and all along the relationship, is pinnacle!!!!! If it's a "friendship" you cherish and want to keep no matter what happens, you'll do EVERYTHING earthly and heavenly possible to maintain, respect and honor it! For me that's how I've been able to "weather" the storm with my male friendships. But to be honest it was rough sailing at the start, but time, openness , trust and most importantly LOVE, bought us both thru! I pray my friend that if this relationship means that much to you, you'll do all you can to save it! Pray about it....let God guide you! Be blessed child of God.
Joy, you the exact person to talk to with this matter like any other subject that we've had our discussions on. And thank you for educating me about different kinds of 'friendships.' Being honest I didn't know that there's even titles.
I can relate when saying, "It was rough sailing at the start, but time, openness , trust and most importantly LOVE, bought us both thru." Our early days terrified me big time to a point of coming out and saying that I was giving up coz I couldn't bear fighting and having disagreements especially with my profile and the importance of family, which is something I'm not that interested in having, unless i'm in a certain mood only for that time then wake up next morning back to my old self again who don't wanna be stuck with husband and kids. The subject threatened our friendship before it was even off the ground. Thank God both took note of that, humbled our selves and apologized. Second session has been a great experience to the point of being tought what 'friendship' really is through that massage.
Interests and expectations were spoken off in early days. Friendship is the common ground with the other part making clear that his seeking for a worship partner which was already part of the friendship anyway, it only got better after this main interest has been laid on the table.
Thank you so much Joy for opening up to my request and educating me about these different kinds of friendships. I still have sooooooooooooooo much to learn from you sis. I urge you to be very patient with me and be as open as you've always been. That I appreciate in you big sis!
Always challenged by your questions and takes me out to think and re-think again, haha!!!
While married/engaged people are meant to build up friendship and become best of friends, not same thing can be said of two best friends sometimes. If we should count 10 couples today, maybe 1 or 2 would have been friends before they took it to the next level. In fact, these sets of people might have gone separate ways before and now found out that they are meant to be together than just ordinary friends.
Why should it be like that? I cannot say.
Listened to the case of a woman who celebrated her 60th birthday some years back and had a best friend that had been with her for over 25 years or more, yet they didn't marry each other.
One of the things that we are sure of in life is uncertainty. Funny enough, it's taught in Physics (or Sciences), but the scripture tells us that the secret things belong to God but the revealed things belong unto us (we human beings) - Deut 29:29, and that is where the place of our relationship with God comes first before any other things.
God is like a driver that drives human hearts into certain directions and we will be wondering why He didn't drive it towards what we are expecting or imagiining, but since He knows best, we will surely be at rest in leaving everything to Him, even though it is not easy to do sometimes.
Friends are like family members that understands us, can predict us, can comfort us but the issue is that they were strangers before they became the best friend to us.
If the friend is now meant to be one's partner, I think one of the hints to that is them realizing that going for other person is not going to work. They might even go for another person but they will find out that they are not having fulfillment staying there, hence they want to come back to their friends.
Since one cannot determine this, then one needs to follow the direction of peace in one's heart for guidance.
It's always great hearing from you. Much appreciation for thoughts given to this and time taken in writing back.
"Always challenged by your questions and takes me out to think and re-think again" Same goes here friendship, my mind works overtime when interacting with you. You make me think out of the box which I don't mind coz it opens doors for educating while also learning from the other part.
"One of the things that we are sure of in life is uncertainty" Well said on that one, I fully agree! Your qoated sentence reminds me of the my previous post before this one, when I asked the views of those who are here searching for their lifetime partners (I'm not deviating from our current subject, I kinda realized that these two different posts complement each other somehow.)
The question was: How about giving a relationship a new fresh start daily, seeing that we cannot get the total fulfillment that our being hungers for from our partners who are just as limited as we are, with their own emptiness to be met too, while there's such expectation from relationship? This question was asked out of the true reality that fellows feel failed in relationships since there's a higher rate of divorce in the body of Christ instead of demonstrating to lost souls what love, commitment and family really is.
Dealing with this concern how about celebrating the very little our partners can offer through forgiveness daily even when guilt hasn't been noted and acknowledged by the other part. Won't this open doors of appreciating the very little one has to offers instead of nourishing frustrations of not having my needs met while the other part still looks at me with expression of expectation too inspite of my needs not being met? Can we give what we lack? I doubt we can.
Since when committing I was seeking and expecting intimacy but now not getting the fullness of it (life and its package of uncertainly) why don't I forgive the next part for not being God (for only He can satisfy all our needs) and celebrate the reflection of God's unlimited love that is hidden within this precious one I chose with his/her limitations?
I'm sorry Amstel... When touching the subject of 'life's gift of uncertainly' often times, you took me back to this post.
Now moving forth to our current subject about 'friendship' I have just few questions to ask you dear from your reply. Please don't lose heart, we only just chatting and expressing our thoughts. The first question is:
* Can people really claim to be meant for each other OR God makes means in connecting us with our possible mates and then leave us to decide what we gonna do with the presented opportunity, weather we choose to make most of it or we let go of the opportunity through break ups?
* The second one is: While married/engaged people are meant to build up friendship and become best of friends" With my limited thoughts Amstel, I don't see two people succeeding this far (marriege/engagement) without being friends first if true friendship is the description of the opening massage. By now certain things would have been hard talking about if they were not spoken of in early days while the two should have worked on being friends. When engaged to be married you guys are already relating on another level. I think by now both should have emptied themselves not working on starting to do that. My male friend had to pull out on the wedding eve, the next day being a wedding day. This was few years ago, till now we don't know what he was told on last minutes instead his now married to someone else. Don't you think God's presented opportunity was missed used? Was someone meant for the other or people had to be honest from the word go as Joy already said?
Can't help it but to push you to your limits Amstel
You set my mind on a race for ideas every time you post here.
Friends are free with each other...
Friends are honest with each other...
Friends are open to each other...
Friends care about each other...
For any relationship to prosper there must be friendship.Even in marriage,if husband and wife are friends the relationship is easy and healthy.The two can be able to deal with any obstacles that come on their way.They can tell each other anything,and they can share even the deepest fears in their hearts.
If husband and wife are friends, they pour their hearts to each other but if there is no friendship,there are reservations.
As one of the ladies said,thats why people here ask for friendship first.
If the friendship moves to next level and still the aspect of friendship doesn't go away(which happens in most relationships but doesn't have to),the relationship is marvelous.
I just wanted to share few thought about this you posted: "...I learned that a friend is someone who I would freely give my life for and without asking I know that my friend would do the same for me..."
Believed or not, friednship is looking after it self.
You words reminded me those Jesus said, but I have found that friendship and love, both, expect mutualilty, as a boomerang would come back again. Few, very few people will put their life for another person, particular a mother or a father, the rest is less compelled to give their life for free. So, contrary to your experience, nothing is freely given: Everything has its price.
This is coming quite late but will try to address it as much as possible.
First question: Can people really claim to be meant for each? We cannot say at first, whether is it meant to be or not and
that is why we need to be open to what God's spirit is communicating to our hearts. One thing I can say is that when we
meet people, it's either for a reason or for a season. That's why we need God's guidance by His Spirit to guide us always
so that we can tell us if we are crossing the boundary of the purpose of whatever relationship we are building.
Can God make means in connecting with our possible mates and then leave us to decide what we gonna with the presented
opportunity?
My answer to this is YES. When God puts something before us, He leaves us with the choice to do it or not to do it, since
human beings are free moral agent, although He still speaks to us by His Spirit and makes us see the need why we need to
go with His choice because we don't know about the future but just about now.
***That is why after some time, some people start wondering whether they are still in love with their married partner or
not, because it seems what was there in the beginning doesn't seem to be there again, reason being that they didn't know
about the future or what it holds but only God Almighty does know that.***
On to the second question; there is dynamics of love that many people these days do not realize. The secrecy of long
lasting friendship and marriage lies in the dynamics of love.
There are 3 kinds of love and I believe that in order for us to have a love-filled marriage, we need to start from the
very foundation itself. In the present day world, the foundation of love is missing and that is why relationships are
crashing and marriages are crumbling. Mind you, couples are meant to be best friends of each other, but to be honest,
these couples couldn't have been the best of friends before or not even in the circle of their friends at all.
Like I mentioned earlier, there are 3 levels of love;
1. Agape - this is the love for everyone, irrespective of race, sex, creed, doctrine, dogma or philosophy of life. This
love does not seen anyone superior or inferior, but makes people deal with other people in a gracious manner. This love is
generic in nature because it is meant to be shown to everyone.
2. Philia - this love is for some specific set of people, whom we regard as friends. It is also the same kind of love we
show to parents and siblings and relatives, since they are the first set of people in our lives. This philia, I believe is
in levels/stages. Why? You may ask.
We have friends, let's say someone like me have 10 friends (assume 5 males and 5 females), and I relate with them as good
friends. Despite this, all of these 10 guys will not be my best friends, quite impossible for it to happen, and if I were
to have best friends, I may have 1 or 2 or 3 among these 10 that are very best to me, sometimes it can be 1. The level of
philia I am going to have for this best will be different from the level of philia I am going to have for these 1 or 2 or
3, simply because they are my best friends. That is the dynamics of life at work there.
3. Eros - this is the love shown for one person, and that person is one's spouse (whether engaged to or married to). So
many times, people do think eros is about sensual/sexual love but it is not at all, but a component of eros (mind you, the
word erotic comes from eros). That is why it is impossible to fall in love with 2 person at the same time because the
programmer of life, the Almighty God Himself didn't program it that way. If love is like a pyramid, just like the
psychologist' triangle of love theory, this eros is at the tip, and we know that anything that is at the tip has the power
to either tickle or puncture (depending on how it's being used).
***If sensual component of eros is borne out of love, it will tickle the soul, but if borne out of lust, ti's gonna
puncture the soul. Hence the reason why we have perverseness in our world today***
Now to something quite funny, the person we can get married to might not be out of the people we have as friends, but the
issue there is that when they come, two things come at play together; philia and eros. We begin to love them as friends
and desire them as partners (which is what many people call feelings). The eros component include the desire to see,
communicate, please, care, nurture, stay with the other person (although they are more than that anyway), not just the
desire to sleep with the person, even though it is there too but because we are following it the way the Almighty God has
laid it down, the sensual component of it is like an unripe fruit that only ripens on the day one gets married to the
other.
That is how fuuny the thing is and may look complex, but in actual sense, it's truthful.
Relationships and marriages fail because the very first foundation, agape, is not there and if that is absent, the other
kind of love we build are just like building on sinking sound. All the shambles we see today that people call marriage had their foundations mainly on eros - I saw him/her and I developed feelings (which is a kind of appealing to the senses and not the soul); but is love out of senses, I will humbly say NO.
Love is very spiritual, and I am sorry to say this; only those who love God know what it is to love for God Himself is love.
Would gladly entertain further probes and questionings from you, as usual, because you always probe me further and further :):):):glow::glow::winksmile::winksmile:
***Noticed my structural layout was not that good after I had posted my previous message and I have to edit it again and re-post what I have up there. Kindly neglect my previous post and read this one because that one is not appealing to read at all :( ***
First question: Can people really claim to be meant for each? We cannot say at first, whether is it meant to be or not and that is why we need to be open to what God's spirit is communicating to our hearts. One thing I can say is that when we meet people, it's either for a reason or for a season. That's why we need God's guidance by His Spirit to guide us always so that we can tell us if we are crossing the boundary of the purpose of whatever relationship we are building.
Can God make means in connecting with our possible mates and then leave us to decide what we gonna with the presented opportunity?
My answer to this is YES. When God puts something before us, He leaves us with the choice to do it or not to do it, since human beings are free moral agent, although He still speaks to us by His Spirit and makes us see the need why we need to go with His choice because we don't know about the future but just about now.
***That is why after some time, some people start wondering whether they are still in love with their married partner or not, because it seems what was there in the beginning doesn't seem to be there again, reason being that they didn't know about the future or what it holds but only God Almighty does know that.***
On to the second question; there is dynamics of love that many people these days do not realize. The secrecy of long-lasting friendship and marriage lies in the dynamics of love.
There are 3 kinds of love and I believe that in order for us to have a love-filled marriage, we need to start from the very foundation itself. In the present day world, the foundation of love is missing and that is why relationships are crashing and marriages are crumbling. Mind you, couples are meant to be best friends of each other, but to be honest, these couples couldn't have been the best of friends before or not even in the circle of their friends at all.
Like I mentioned earlier, there are 3 levels of love;
1. Agape - this is the love for everyone, irrespective of race, sex, creed, doctrine, dogma or philosophy of life. This love does not seen anyone superior or inferior, but makes people deal with other people in a gracious manner. This love is generic in nature because it is meant to be shown to everyone.
2. Philia - this love is for some specific set of people, whom we regard as friends. It is also the same kind of love we show to parents and siblings and relatives, since they are the first set of people in our lives. This philia, I believe is in levels/stages. Why? You may ask.
We have friends, let's say someone like me have 10 friends (assume 5 males and 5 females), and I relate with them as good friends. Despite this, all of these 10 guys will not be my best friends, quite impossible for it to happen, and if I were to have best friends, I may have 1 or 2 or 3 among these 10 that are very best to me, sometimes it can be 1. The level of philia I am going to have for this best will be different from the level of philia I am going to have for these 1 or 2 or 3, simply because they are my best friends. That is the dynamics of life at work there.
3. Eros - this is the love shown for one person, and that person is one's spouse (whether engaged to or married to). So many times, people do think eros is about sensual/sexual love but it is not at all, but a component of eros (mind you, the word erotic comes from eros). That is why it is impossible to fall in love with 2 person at the same time because the programmer of life, the Almighty God Himself didn't program it that way. If love is like a pyramid, just like the psychologist' triangle of love theory, this eros is at the tip, and we know that anything that is at the tip has the power to either tickle or puncture (depending on how it's being used).
***If sensual component of eros is borne out of love, it will tickle the soul, but if borne out of lust, it's gonna puncture the soul. Hence the reason why we have perverseness in our world today***
Now to something quite funny, the person we can get married to might not be out of the people we have as friends, but the issue there is that when they come, two things come at play together; philia and eros. We begin to love them as friends and desire them as partners (which is what many people call feelings). The eros component include the desire to see, communicate, please, care, nurture, stay with the other person (although they are more than that anyway), not just the desire to sleep with the person, even though it is there too but because we are following it the way the Almighty God has laid it down, the sensual component of it is like an unripe fruit that only ripens on the day one gets married to the other.
That is how funny the thing is and may look complex, but in actual sense, it's simple.
Relationships and marriages fail because the very first foundation, agape, is not there and if that is absent, the other kind of love we build are just like building on sinking sound. All the shambles we see today that people call marriage had their foundations mainly on eros - I saw him/her and I developed feelings (which is a kind of appealing to the senses and not the soul); but is love out of senses, I will humbly say NO.
Love is very spiritual, and I am sorry to say this; only those who love God know what it is to love for God Himself is love.
Would gladly entertain further probes and questionings from you, as usual, because you always probe me further and further :glow::glow::glow:
Thank God for an opportunity of finaly writting back.
"This is coming quite late"
You're welcome to take as much time as you need. We have other commitments that we need to meet during working hours, we may not have as much time to spend typing replies when there are dead lined to be met. Hence my reply is also late too. And yes dear you've given this much deeper thought than I expected. You have no idea how much this means to me. Your reply is loaded with wisdom and insight. Much appreciation for being generous with the wisdom God has layed in you by sharing your thoughts and educating me through them. May God richly bless you Amstel!!!
"Kindly neglect my previous post and read this one because that one is not appealing to read at all" Trust me dear brother,... The first one was just as great as the second one. Thanks again for that extra mile traveled in re-posting.
* First question: Can people really claim to be meant for each other?
"One thing I can say is that when we meet people, it's either for a reason or for a season. That's why we need God's guidance by His Spirit to guide us always so that we can tell us if we are crossing the boundary of the purpose of whatever relationship we are building."
Well said Amstel. I fully agree with all of what you said! In asmuch as we don't know about the future but only the present and are in desperate need of the Holly Spirit's guidance, God still respects our wishes and choices. The big deal here is having Him involved from the beginning. When saying this, I'm reminded of a passage I red in the bible early days after I got saved. I was never able to find this passage again after reading it once. Please allow me to share a little summery of it:
There was this woman whom God had plans of using her for a specific ministry, but now this woman had other plans about her life which were totally different from what God had in mind about her life. (humans.... Being free agents and using that right to negotiate with God not necessarily that we not willing to submit to Him but rather living a fulfilling lifestyle in combination with His plan and your hearts desire with your personal life)
This woman wanted to be married so much that when she failed convincing God otherwise, she had to come up with some sort a second plan NOT rejecting God's calling to the ministry, but rather trying to meet both interests (God's and hers) at once. She made an agreement with God that: She was gonna be married at least for 7years and enjoy her marriage, then the following years after the 7years in marriage were all allocated to God and the ministry. Indeed her husband passed on 7years later after they were married. The bible says that, "She served God wholeheartedly after she was granted her hearts desire."
Now the question that remains in my mind is that: Was the husband aware that his committing to her only to live 7years after marrying her? This is an assignment to those willing to commit. We may not know agreements done by our partners to God before we meeting them, those agreementd may affect us big time. This is were openness and honesty takes place more seriously than we could ever think.
Reason I shared the above passage in agreement with your reply is when you said, "That is why after some time, some people start wondering whether they are still in love with their married partner or not, because it seems what was there in the beginning doesn't seem to be there again, reason being that they didn't know about the future or what it holds but only God Almighty does know that."
This is why the foundation of marriage shouldn't ONLY be based on emotions of how people feel. Yes to a certain extend it does count how we feel about each other or else how are we gonna fulfill what the Apostle Paul said in 1 Corinth 7, about both ensuring that they render affection due to each other? That can only be fulfilled through feelings though now there's serious reality to be focused on here than physical fulfillment, that reality is God's principles about marriage. Principles God wrote being sober minded not influenced by feeling in love or feeling out of love, fore loving someone is a choice after all. Our feelings are bound to fade away one way or the other, since they're most likely aroused and turned off by what the other part does.
In short dear one, I fully agree with you, was only adding that in asmuch as we don't know what future holds for us but only God knows, we cannot let that deprive us our desired interests and plans. Instead keeping inline with God's principles with our desired plans and involving Him from the word go, not only when things are not working out, He can surely grant us our hearts desires in combination with His plans about our lives through opportunities presented by Him in connecting us with our possible mates and living us to decide what do we do with those opportunities. The bigger challenge here is keeping up with the package of our choice, for example: Choosing to be single only to partake in sexual activities OR be married only to abort a child whose suppose to be fruit of marriage like the other husband in the bible who had an intercourse with his wife (a wife taken from his late brother for the continuation of family through child bearing) only not to release inside her but he rather did it on the floor. The bible says that he was killed instantly! We can't have only a portion of what we chose or didn't choose, its either all or nothing wich is not always easy.
Well said dear on your reply to the first question. Will make time to write back on your second reply.
NB... I wrote in agreement with you though only expressing what came in mind when reading what you shared. You most welcome to correct me if I missed what you said or if there's anything I shared that you disagree with... Till I write again, be good!
