Author	Thread: truth vs tradition april 6 2012
FocusIsEverything View Profile History	truth vs tradition april 6 2012 Posted : 6 Apr, 2012 07:09 PM How can we not be under the law if jesus didn't abolish the law? He said he didn't come to abolish but to fulfill. No temple exist today so its obvious about excluding temple ceremonial stuff. But, doesn't the rest apply? scripture says we are under grace not under the law ....and it goes onto say god forbid if we do away with the law. So how does the permit us not to oBserve it. heaven and earth shall pass away but my words will never pass away....and so many other scriptures.....I'm starting to believe that we christians don't want the truth we just want our cozy comfy pretty manmade traditions that involve pausing from this world to drink and eat of vain pagan traditions and put a christian label on it Post Reply
FocusIsEverything View Profile History	truth vs tradition april 6 2012 Posted : 6 Apr, 2012 07:14 PM Sorry ladies this isn't aimed at you I meant to put it in a different place but u r welcome to respond Post Reply
View Profile History	truth vs tradition april 6 2012 Posted : 6 Apr, 2012 07:27 PM Dear Focus, I cautiously approach this topic (under "ask women"? not under "biblical discussions"?) sensing an undertone of anger. Clearly not all Christians are going to be at the same maturity level in a forum like this, nor do they all have great teaching as some of us have been privilaged to have had. Nevertheless... here goes... Jesus came to fulfill the law because there is absolutely noone on earth who is able to follow the law perfectly (except Him). That is the point of the law... to point out our hopelessness! Our imperfection. Like trying to swim across the Atlantic Ocean, it doesn't matter how much training you have, we can only cross if we get in His lifeboat. Even if we were able to get half-way there (I could make it 200yds), we'd still fail miserably with the same results - drowning! So... we rely completely on Him and what He did for us. We are no longer under the law... but we do owe our lives! The law can still direct us, but our reliance is no longer on our ability to follow it perfectly, but our reliance is on trusting in Him for all things...dying to self. That includes dying to our own 'needs' in our relationships with each other! :yay: Post Reply
FocusIsEverything View Profile History	truth vs tradition april 6 2012 Posted : 6 Apr, 2012 08:59 PM I know we can never be perfect and I'm not saying we should try to be nor am I speaking of earning righteousness... All I'm saying is after taking the NT scriptures into account that are perceived to be on both sides of issue how can we conclude that the law is done away with? Its starting to look like a lot of cherry picking if u ask me. We embrace the ten commandments, and a few other OT beliefs but ignore the rest of the OT laws ....why is that? I think we should take another look at the scriptures and not just swallow traditional teaching without first examining it. Post Reply
View Profile History	truth vs tradition april 6 2012 Posted : 7 Apr, 2012 01:17 AM There were OT laws not meant for all... Post Reply
View Profile History	truth vs tradition april 6 2012 Posted : 7 Apr, 2012 05:57 AM Paul addresses this topic a lot, since a major issue in the early church was whether one had to become Jewish/follow Jewish law once one became a Christian. Galatians, IIRC, specifically deals with this issue. I have no problem elaborating but if you're just trying to start an argument as to why we should adopt Jewish rituals, I'm not going to waste my time. Post Reply
View Profile History	truth vs tradition april 6 2012 Posted : 7 Apr, 2012 09:37 AM You know the Jewish religious leaders didn't think Jesus was very good at following all of the rules either. Post Reply
View Profile History	truth vs tradition april 6 2012 Posted : 7 Apr, 2012 12:22 PM Hello Focus, First off I second to what TrustandBelieve saidabout coming to fulfill the law and even though we are not under the law we do owe our lives to the one who gave His life as a ransom for many. I did not come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it Mat.5:17: My points are drawn from Mathew Henry�s commentary. This is not an exhaustive expose of this verse, but however should point to the importance of one�s responsibility, especially if one looks to get married and lead his family in devotion, to a fervent study of the Word of God. The people who Christ spoke this to were his disciples and the number and the time of the Sermon on the Mount who heard this may have numbered in the thousands who �had an eye to the scriptures of the OT as their rule. The thought that you may be alluding to Focus in weakening the OT laws are not Christ�s intentions. This point is being made clear to those pious Jews like the Pharisees that they would not be prejudiced against Christ thinking he would take away from the honor and consistency of the scriptures. Quite the opposite Christ came to do. This is the point that may help you Focus as it helped me when I wrestled with these type of verses (as there may be more in one�s walk that we will arrive to in our study of the scripture.). All things are centered upon Christ. He came not to abolish but fulfill the law, that is if the glass was � full, Christ came to fill it completely. How does the scripture means by this, well I point back to what our sister said,� Jesus came to fulfill the law because there is absolutely noone on earth who is able to follow the law perfectly (except Him).� On these grounds we come to the establishment that the scriptures made that the law, especially the ceremonial laws which were a shadow of Christ himself (Heb 8:5,6; 10:1; Col 2:16,17). The important thing is to realize that Christ is the fulfillment of all these �shadows� resembled by the law, as Mathew Henry commented, �He did not come to make void, but make good the ceremonial law, and manifested himself to be the Substance of all those shadows. Furthermore, � The gospel is the time of reformation (Heb_9:10), not the repeal of the law, but the amendment of it, and, consequently, its establishment. PS The book of Hebrews is such a great help when one comes to these questions about His person, fulfillment of the law, office as High Priest, and other doctrine. A good commentary will prove useful as well like �Lets Study Hebrews� by Hywel R. Jones (I used Mathew Henry and J.C Ryle). This link may prove helpful, http://www.trinitybookservice.com/index.php/books/commentaries/new-testament.html?limit=all&mode=list May the Lord increase His grace and peace in you. Post Reply
Ishwindally7 View Profile History	truth vs tradition april 6 2012 Posted : 13 Apr, 2012 08:42 PM Do what is right in HIS eyes! He fulfill it-- its finished...and it is a done deal! Let say you drink -- and felt so convicted right after...then cease from it; don't get to the store and buy it; No one actually force us to do things; it takes money and time to get to the store and there's plenty of time to think; just don't do it! Pagan is pagan, why be pagan like others.. the Law was made to protect us..still in progress; When you hate and don't forgive how does it makes you feel inside? elevated BP, unhappy, guilt, LOS (sleeplessness/fatigue or illnesses) and :zzzz: depression other stuff happens internal and topical of your body and it lasts days, months, then sometimes years... Jesus- never drink, some doctrines says He did--but He didn't (they say He did, so they can justify themselves and have an excuse to drink-- and yes the Scripture says "do things in moderation" I agree but Jesus never drink any alcohol- its the media, its a person that wants things change... Yet He never did. Jesus actually followed the Hebrew words and traditions. He is radically different, He gets angry (stature) and stand for what is Right...that is why people didn't like Him. The Bible (Scriptures) if you read this from front to back once a year.. each time will give you a new Revelation...it says: test the Spirit--it is open, nothing hidden no gray lines. if you want answers-- investigate check it out...read it..take notes journal.. He said if you seek His word... you will be satisfied.. The word is God according to John..You abide in Him and He will abide with you.. Seek ye first the kingdom of God and all of these things shall be added unto you... Jesus saves his touching the fruit of the vine on the wedding time.. He is the groom and the Church In Him is the bride...Read on and you will be amazes..remember HIS WORS (Holy Scripture) Holy Bible is Rhama--meaning "living/alive" God Bless and Shalom!:purpleangel::glow: Ishwindally7:purpleangel: Post Reply
View Profile History	truth vs tradition april 6 2012 Posted : 14 Apr, 2012 11:16 AM ...what on earth. Post Reply
View Profile History	truth vs tradition april 6 2012 Posted : 14 Apr, 2012 04:45 PM Two things: The law is to convict us of sin - it shows us as we really are when judged alongside the absolute standards of holiness. Nobody has ever been saved because of the law because not one of us can keep it fully. Jesus most certainly did drink alcohol. Maybe not as a social thing, and I doubt He ever became drunk, but wine featured in many Jewish festivals which He was obliged to observe. In fact our communions are an echo of the Passover meal Jesus was observing only the day before His death. Now you may say that the wine they used wasn't alcoholic, but bear in mind Scripture says not to become drunk from too much wine; which wouldn't be possible if it weren't alcoholic! Post Reply

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