Thread: Dating Vs. Courting: Is Dating Hedonistic? Is it biblical and can it produce strong relationship for marriage?
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Dating Vs. Courting: Is Dating Hedonistic? Is it biblical and can it produce strong relationship for marriage?
Posted : 15 Dec, 2011 10:48 AM
First off you may be asking what is dating, what is courtship?
Well its not just word games, but a different perspective. At the end of reading my perspective I would enjoy if you can tell me how your dating experiences have brought you closer to your one day Husband and relationship with God. Does it not just give you heartbreak and mixed emotions about guys? And how do you can you avoid Hedonism in dating? Do you keep your out of what your looking for in a man?
So let me begin by stating what I think the youth of today are getting ripped off. Instead of enjoying their teen years as they build skills and character, they are getting distracted into the quagmire of relationships that they are not equipped to conduct. The teen years are those where they have the fewest responsibilities at the same time as having their greatest energy level. These should be fun times, exciting times. They should be an opportunity to develop a deep, intimate and personal walk with God, establishing themselves as young warriors who know the Father and have overcome the evil one (1 John 2:13).
Unfortunately, however, our culture teaches our singles to engage in multiple dating relationships as though it were a normal and useful practise. The truth is, the modern dating system has only been around for less than a century. And it is my conviction that the wordly system of dating, as it is currently conducted by most people, is far from God's original plan, as described in the Bible. I intend to expose the flaws I see in today's dating model, and at the same time point out how Biblical courtship addresses these flaws.
As Christians, our primary purpose in life is to seek and serve God, and fulfill our destiny in Him. This is equally true in the area of relationships. We need to find out what God's plan for relationships is, and then follow it. The current model that we are using is ineffective, at best. It results in divorce more than half the time. There must be something we are doing wrong. Let's study what we are doing now against what God has described in His word, and draw up a new standard. I propose to call this standard 'courtship'. Other terms, such as 'betrothal' or even 'biblical dating' could be used, although they would possibly be confusing.
An overview of dating and courtship
Dating was invented in the early part of this century. Prior to that time, marriage always involved much more input from the parents, and "trial relationships" leading up to marriage were not conducted at all. Courtship, as discussed in more detail subsequently, seeks to emulate the Godly models described in the Bible that were conducted by God's people up until the invention of dating. My basic premise is that regardless of how we feel about things, we should follow God's model, because it will be the most effective and fulfilling. My intention is to convey that conviction, then to describe my current understanding of His model.
In overview, courting should only happen once and ends in a life-long covenant relationship. Dating happens lots of times, and ends in many hurts, heartbreaks, scars, and if you're lucky, a partner that just may stay with you for the next few years, or (if you're really lucky) the rest of your life.
In the modern dating scene you usually hide all your faults to give a false impression about yourself, in order to keep your partner liking you. Recreational dating is about self-gratification -- you date to satisfy your own needs.
Courtship is about open and honest exploration of each others lives and families leading up to engagement and marriage. Courtship is about marriage -- you court in order to see if there is any reason why you shouldn't get married. There is no romantic interaction until after the commitment to marriage.
Courtship is a word that has been adopted to describe a biblical model for the relationship leading up to marriage. In the Bible, the parents were always involved in the marriage process. They did not arrange the marriage without the childrens' consent, although they were certainly involved in the arrangements. Sometimes the parents found partners for the children, and then the children were consulted for their opinion. Other times the son would approach the daughter's father and make arrangements with him.What's wrong with dating?
There are many forms of dating, perhaps as many as there are people. Everyone has a different view of what is right and wrong. But there is a glaring fault in many of our models, a double-standard. Once we are married, we recognize that certain things are sacred to our partner. Things such as co-habitation, kissing, intimate hugging, sex and bringing up children. We recognize that not only our physical body, but our emotions, even our spirit are dedicated to that one partner, for the rest of our life (according to our vows).
The dichotomy is this: in dating, we presume to partake of many of these privileges of marriage. We would be shocked if a married man had an emotional attachment to another woman, and yet it's quite acceptable for singles to have a different emotional attachment every week. On the one hand, we save sex for our partners (and some even do that sparingly), but on the other, we engage in rampant emotional promiscuity, giving pieces of our hearts away until one wonders what will be left for that special, life-long partner.
I have adopted the view that the Bible holds the truth for life today. If you feel that the Bible is not the standard for your relationships, then you might find some interesting information here, but you may remain unconvinced. If you're still not sure about this whole Christianity thing, now might be a good time to check out my essays on Christianity. Otherwise, you need to take the perspective that it's not what you want, but what God wants.
The primary purpose of marriage is not to please you, but to serve God. (Another way to say this is 'Our pleasure is not God's number one priority!' :) God wants us to be happy, but "happy" is subject to so many variances in circumstances that it is a very poor standard with which to judge life. Genesis says that God created Eve as a helpmeet -- to help Adam perform his duty, working the garden and taking dominion over the earth. That is God's purpose for marriage -- a team, fulfilling His call together -- pleased with each other, certainly, but primarily focused on Him, not their own pleasure. As Antoine de Saint-Exupery said, "Love does not consist in gazing at each other, but in looking together in the same direction."
So to have a successful marriage, the most important thing is to ensure that you follow His principles that He laid down when He designed marriage. The irony is, when we focus on His principles instead of our pleasure, we end up having a very satifying and pleasant marriage! You may feel that courtship does not adequately describe these principles. If so, I would be happy to hear from you, because I don't believe I have all the answers yet, I feel I'm still on the journey. These articles have already undergone considerable revision from readers' feedback. However, from my review of the Bible, it is my firm conviction that the recreational dating scene is not God's plan for finding a mate.
Dating Vs. Courting: Is Dating Hedonistic? Is it biblical and can it produce strong relationship for marriage?
Posted : 15 Dec, 2011 05:29 PM
Dating is hiding all your faults so that is why it honestly takes 6-8 months for the whole real person to come out. Unfortunately, emotions/feeling normally happens in the first 6-8 minuets. Most people get hung-up on those feelings � birth of pain and drama�.
The answerer is simply one of the fruits of the Spirit is self-control� those that have the fruit can control there emotions, those that don�t� well don�t�. but all who know Him it is available to.
I do not believe dating vs. courtship is the issue my opinion it is self-control or lack or it to wait long enough to make a truly informed decision.
Dating Vs. Courting: Is Dating Hedonistic? Is it biblical and can it produce strong relationship for marriage?
Posted : 16 Dec, 2011 06:33 AM
"At the end of reading my perspective I would enjoy if you can tell me how your dating experiences have brought you closer to your one day Husband and relationship with God."
Okay. I will. But I'll wait until the end like you asked.
"Does it not just give you heartbreak and mixed emotions about guys?"
No. Again, I'm waiting until the end.
"And how do you can you avoid Hedonism in dating? Do you keep your out of what your looking for in a man?"
I think you accidentally a word.
"So let me begin by stating what I think the youth of today are getting ripped off. Instead of enjoying their teen years as they build skills and character, they are getting distracted into the quagmire of relationships that they are not equipped to conduct. The teen years are those where they have the fewest responsibilities at the same time as having their greatest energy level. These should be fun times, exciting times. They should be an opportunity to develop a deep, intimate and personal walk with God, establishing themselves as young warriors who know the Father and have overcome the evil one (1 John 2:13)."
I don't like warrior imagery but that's more personal preference than anything else. I'm curious why this is relevant to a site full of adults (my understanding is that you have to be over 18 to join).
"Unfortunately, however, our culture teaches our singles to engage in multiple dating relationships as though it were a normal and useful practise. The truth is, the modern dating system has only been around for less than a century."
Yes, but you don't prove why or if this is relevant. Many things have been around for less than a century - this computer and internet included. The age of things doesn't definitively prove their value in any way, for good or bad.
"my conviction that the wordly system of dating, as it is currently conducted by most people, is far from God's original plan, as described in the Bible."
God does not discuss a system of dating in the Bible. Dating didn't exist in Biblical times, not because it is bad, but because it was a different culture(s). The Bible does not address dating as such, and it certainly does not directly address modern ideas of dating. Now, it may provide some principles which can then be applied to a certain degree, but it does not lay out any rules and processes for dating. These will be very subjective and dependent upon the individual and how he/she needs to apply the Biblical truth to his/her life in order to best honor God with his or her dating choices. HOW the person does this will vary.
"I intend to expose the flaws I see in today's dating model, and at the same time point out how Biblical courtship addresses these flaws."
Again, there is no such thing as Biblical courtship. Relationships varied even in the Bible, and the Bible does not discuss dating, because that's not really the point of the message.
"As Christians, our primary purpose in life is to seek and serve God"
Yes.
"and fulfill our destiny in Him."
What does this mean? Clarify please.
"This is equally true in the area of relationships. We need to find out what God's plan for relationships is, and then follow it."
No. God does not have a specific, cut and dry process for relationships. God has modeled how we are to treat those around us, not how we are to date them. It's up to us to do our best to apply that model to the many individuals we come in contact with, dating or otherwise. And I emphasize the "individual." Jesus responded to different people very differently, which should be a clue that there is no specific method.
"The current model that we are using is ineffective, at best."
But is it, really? What evidence do you have for this?
"It results in divorce more than half the time"
I'm pretty sure that there is conflicting evidence regarding the divorce rate, but more importantly than that, it seems a great leap of logic to assume that all divorced people are divorced as a result of their dating methods - or even to assume that they all dated in a similar way. I doubt very much that this is the case. If you want to look at this statistically, first you would need to figure out the statistics on how many of those 50% dated, "courted," or did something else, and then break it down by type of relationship-building before divorce.
"There must be something we are doing wrong."
You keep saying this, but you haven't proven that case yet.
"Let's study what we are doing now against what God has described in His word and draw up a new standard."
Which is nothing about dating because the Bible doesn't address it.
"I propose to call this standard 'courtship'. Other terms, such as 'betrothal' or even 'biblical dating' could be used, although they would possibly be confusing."
You can't propose that because it isn't a new idea. Countless people have suggested this before and their definitions of courtship and dating vary widely to the point where really, it IS semantics, regardless of how you say otherwise.
In overview, courting should only happen once and ends in a life-long covenant relationship. Dating happens lots of times, and ends in many hurts, heartbreaks, scars, and if you're lucky, a partner that just may stay with you for the next few years, or (if you're really lucky) the rest of your life.
I thought I had the patience to take on this behemoth of a thread, but I really don't, so I'm cutting to the chase. The more "historical" basis of "courtship" doesn't make it God's method, it makes it older. I also disagree strongly with your definitions of dating and courtship, because either one could be a negative or positive experience and neither one is tied to the things you tie it to (hiding flaws, lack of commitment, etc.) Really, you're just using words. A couple that seriously dates with marriage in mind is going to honestly get to know one another and each other's families (though I disagree strongly with those families having as much input as you seem to think it would be wonderful if they had). A couple that is invested in their relationship is going to do these things regardless, EVEN IF THEY ARE DATING (or have dated). And vice versa. There are young courting couples that just want to be married and have sex and so they'll throw caution to the wind and blindly court straight into marriage just to check that item off the list.
It is wrong for a married person to have an emotional/physical attachment to another person because as a married person, they have made a commitment to someone else. As a single person, no commitment has yet been made. You can't make life rules based on future commitments to people that don't yet exist. If I go to work, I don't defer to every coworker in case they might someday get promoted to be my boss. I also don't avoid working hard because someday I might work for a competing business. It doesn't work. As a single woman, I am not committed to anybody, and I am free to commit or not commit as I see fit. A married person, however, has already made a commitment, which they are breaking if they cheat on their spouse. That is the difference.
"I have adopted the view that the Bible holds the truth for life today."
So have I. So have many, many people who date. This kind of sentence is unhelpful and judgmental.
"If you feel that the Bible is not the standard for your relationships, then you might find some interesting information here, but you may remain unconvinced. If you're still not sure about this whole Christianity thing, now might be a good time to check out my essays on Christianity. Otherwise, you need to take the perspective that it's not what you want, but what God wants."
No. This is a lie and it is borderline spiritually abusive. You are not God, and you are not the sole interpreter of God's word. You have presented one (flawed) application of what you think the Bible is saying (though you never cite the Bible or where it might be saying this). The relationship of other people to God is in no way dependent or even affected by your personal, narrow interpretation of what constitutes biblical dating, particularly when you have offered no convincing evidence, biblical or otherwise. It is completely possible and likely that one may have a sincere faith and disagree with you. To say otherwise is a huge red flag and indicator that your message isn't, in fact, from God at all.
"So to have a successful marriage"
I'm curious... are you married? And if so, why are you on this site?
Now, you asked at the end if dating has brought me closer to my husband, assuming I someday will marry, and to God. My answer is yes. Dating has helped me identify what I want and do not want in a husband someday. It may sound crass, but like working a variety of jobs has helped me realize the career I want to pursue, through both positive and negative experiences, so has dating. I have learned how to persevere through conflict, talk through problems, and compromise. I have also learned that I need to respect someone in addition to love them, and I have learned about God's provision and ability to give me things that are better than the things I would choose for myself, as well as His ability to heal me. I've met some good friends and been encouraged that there are intelligent, hard-working, genuinely Christian men in the world for whom I wish nothing but the best. I've learned how to interact with new people and take risks and "put myself out there" to meet people I otherwise would not have met. I've had fun conversations and silly crushes and I decided a long time ago to not ruin my own fun by worrying about it someday being rendered invalid. It is happy in the moment, and I want to live in the moment. And by "fun" I mean the general exhilaration of meeting someone new, not sex or even kissing. Just in case you wanted to try and play that card.
Dating Vs. Courting: Is Dating Hedonistic? Is it biblical and can it produce strong relationship for marriage?
Posted : 17 Dec, 2011 07:59 PM
These issues are a lot more complicated than simple question of this vs. that. My view is that two people should not begin a serious, committed relationship unless they are pursuing the possibility of marriage. (I'm not saying that's the ONE biblical view; that's just my view.)
But there is complexity and variation even within that view. Where's the line between the "getting to know someone/expressing interest" stage and the actual relationship? It's even more weird (to me, anyway) when the people don't have a previous friendship to give context to the relationship (i.e., meeting online). I feel weird calling that first in-person meeting with someone I didn't know before a "date." To me, that's more like a job interview. :)
Ideally, we could all be happily dating/married to someone who was a good friend. But since we don't have that luxury (hence why we're on an online dating site), the methodology for how we get to know each other is going to have to be changed up a bit.
I don't think there's one specific biblically-sanctioned way to go about the process leading to marriage. I think there are general biblical principles (being honest, fleeing lust, considering the other person before yourself, etc) that are going to make our version of dating different from the typical culture's version (which is why some of us may prefer to use a term other than "dating" for distinction).
I think that "dating" as practiced by kids in jr. high/high school (as well as some older people) is inappropriate--though not necessarily sinful, I think it's pretty foolish. So I can see why some of us would not like the term "dating" for that reason.
But this process (whatever term you choose to use) is going to look different for different people--which is to be expected, since we're all different! :)
Dating Vs. Courting: Is Dating Hedonistic? Is it biblical and can it produce strong relationship for marriage?
Posted : 3 Jan, 2012 01:42 PM
I think it often comes down to semantics in some way shape or form. One person's concept of courtship may closely resemble another's concept of dating or visa versa.
Scripture doesn't specifically set forth a step by step process for meeting, getting to know, and the process leading up to marriage other than describe what the common practice was of that day and culture. Which that process isn't always the same throughout scripture but it based on the time and cultural context the passage/book was written in. I'm not going to go to the parents of a girl I'm interested in and offer them x number of cattle or sheep, for their daughter's hand in marriage. Today's culture is different.
That said there are principles in the Bible that we should follow as they are described for us. Things like what a Godly wife should look like in her character and actions, what a Godly husband should look like in his character and actions. What the marriage relationship should look like in how the husband and wife relate to one another. What is sacred in marriage and what is not permitted outside marriage.
Whatever our method, model, etc. we should not partake in things that should be shared only between a husband and wife. Not just in outward actions but in inward thoughts as well. What leads a man or woman to lust or inappropriate desire outside of marriage is to be avoided at all costs. What tempts one man may not tempt another, where one woman may not be tempted another may easily stumble. We are accountable not just for our own actions and thoughts but the effect our actions/words have on the other person. If what I'm doing doesn't tempt me but is a stumbling block to her, I should not do it out of respect for her purity and visa versa. What I'm getting at mostly here is the physical aspects of a relationship. Some would say you can be in the same place but must sit apart with your hands to your self at all times, don't touch or even think about touching, and some will go the other extreme and say whatever comes natural is ok. There are boundaries given in God's word on how we are to conduct ourselves between family, friends, enemies, husband/wife, etc. Whatever model we follow in finding a spouse we are to conduct ourselves in a Godly and self controlled manner. Which means we must use caution, prayer, and communication.
As far as how a relationship should be carried out the main thing is the goal should ultimately be marriage. If you do not see the person as someone you could see marrying then there is no point to dating or having a relationship with that person. Dating just to date is never a good idea. For me to be in a relationship is a level of commitment, it means to me that they are the only one that has my interest, and that I am to practice the characteristics of a Godly husband in how I treat her. That doesn't mean I act like a husband and push for or partake in things that are sacred to marriage but respect the purity of both of us. Does that mean I will never make physical contact with her before we say "I do" no, because some contact is appropriate and good and can convey a sense of care, respect, and affection. This side of marriage a little goes a long way, I don't feel it's appropriate to be all over each other, and constantly pushing the boundaries of what is appropriate, but only enough to show you are there and care and support. Not all physical contact is sexual.
We should be marriage minded in how we approach relationships of all kinds particularly those that lead to marriage. We can ask ourselves am I seeking to date or pursue a relationship with this person, for my own satisfaction or desires or am I seeking to follow the Lords leading and timetable, and willing to show them Christ-like love and that my intentions are for a life long commitment in marriage.
