Educating Your Future Children: Public, Private, or Home (Cont.)
Posted : 31 May, 2011 09:03 PM
I wanted to start a new threat so that we could continue this discussion since the original topic was about to get bumped to the bottomless pit of the second page! For all those new to this discussion I encourage you to read the responses from the first thread!
When it comes to education, my basic premise is this: God created the mind free.
The civil magistrate (government) does not have the authority or jurisdiction to "educate" or tell anyone what to believe or think. Back in Genesis God established several human institutions including the family and the civil magistrate. The Bible is very clear on the parents� role in educating their children (the institution of family) (see Deut 6:6-7, Prov. 22:6, Eph 6:4, Genesis 18:19, Proverbs 1:8 etc.). From these verses, we can see that God designed the family as the primary method to teach and to educate the next generation. In other word�s educate is within the family�s jurisdiction just as the civil magistrate has jurisdiction over the sword (crime and punishment, see Romans 13:3-4).
There is a huge difference between a man or institution having the power to do a thing and having the authority to do a thing. Power is the ability to force or coerce while authority is the just use of power. God has rightly divvied authority between His institutions and one institution cannot usurp the authority of another. No where in scripture has God given the civil magistrate the responsibility or authority of educating the next generation � He left that to the family. This concept of authority and divided powers is embedded in America�s Constitutional framework.
Unfortunately, the civil magistrate has the tendency to use its power to usurp the authority from other institutions and often times with the best of intentions. Nevertheless, we all know that good intentions can produce horrible results. Back in the early years of America, Christianity was nearly universal among its citizenry and as a result had much influence in government and sometimes the institutions exerted power and influence over the other (Ex. state supported churches etc.). The First Amendment establishment of religion clause was meant to prevent the Federal government from establishing a nationally supported Church as in Europe but did not apply to the states. Eventually the states realized their mistake and abandoned the state supported Churches through notable founding fathers such as James Madison and Thomas Jefferson. They believed in God but they also believed that no man had the authority to force another to believe or support those beliefs (through taxation).
Public education is another perfect example. When these systems were first established with the best of intentions it seemed like a great idea. Moreover, because Christianity was so universally accepted there were no major issues such as from what perspective or worldview from which to teach. Now flash forward to modern day where Christianity is not so highly regarded in the media, government, etc. where now Christians are on the other side of the spectrum. We are forced to support ideas such as homosexuality, evolution, and other concepts based on a secular humanist worldview. This is exactly why God gave education and instruction of the next generation to the family not the civil magistrate. Education is an inherently sacred act and it is impossible not to teach from a fixed point of reference (worldview) whether it be good or bad.
The goal should not be to �tale back the schools� but to take the civil magistrate out of education all together and restore its responsibility back to the family where they can decided how and from what perspective their children shall be raised. Fortunately for parents, home schooling materials and private schools are valuable to help parents fulfill this all important role. It is true that cost is a huge factor when it comes to family and education. A lot of parents who would desire to home school their kids or send their kids to private school can not afford to do so. More reason to stop forcing citizens to pay for education they may or may not use, or may or may not support.
Of course, such a massive transition from public financed education must be handled with great effort and care but the particulars of such a transition are not the focus of this discussion.
God has entrusted parents to instruct their children in righteousness and train them in a way that is honoring to God. This truth is why I believe home school is the best method to educate children although private religious schooling would be an acceptable alternative. It is very important to be careful when it comes to private schooling because as a parent you are entrusting part of your sacred duty to educate your kids to another institution. Even if a kid is private schooled that does not negate the duty of the parents to teach their children! Far too many parents are neglecting their duty as parents . . . is it any wonder why kids these days are so lost?
Summary: For the reasons listed above I would conclude that public financed education (at least how it exists in the US today) is not a Biblically acceptable method of education. For me as a matter of conscience, if the government ever forced me as a future parent to put my kids in public school, I would leave the country. My duty to educate my children in a way that honors God is far more important than any duty I would owe to the government. To put it simply, God�s law is higher than man�s law. God intended the family to instruct the next generation, not the civil magistrate and when power is used to usurp that authority, things go horribly awry!
Educating Your Future Children: Public, Private, or Home (Cont.)
Posted : 31 May, 2011 10:27 PM
I agree with some of what you have just said here Iaokim but I also disagree very strongly with some of it as well. I would even go so far as to suggest that you may be reading some of your own opinion into the scriptures rather than distilling it out.
I agree that it is the parents job to teach their children. There is no denying that fact as it is clearly stated in scripture. However, I don't believe it says in scripture that the family must teach a child absolutely everything that he learns as it seems you are suggesting. In fact, there are several examples of non-family members teaching important figures in the Bible: Moses taught Joshua and Eli taught Samuel just to name a couple.
My understanding of scripture is that you are to teach your children how to live with God's guidance. "Train up a child in the way he should go, and when he is old he will not turn from it" sounds awfully like you are putting you child on the right path doesn't it? Seems to me you are suppose to teach them to follow the path God puts in front of them.
This sort of teaching is different than the education one gets in school. I went to public school and though I did get taught evolution (which I will come back to shortly), I don't feel like I was ever taught anything other than tolerance of homosexuality nor other "secular humanist worldviews." My parents were quite adamant in teaching me that homosexuality was wrong, that sex outside of marriage was a sin, and other such things that children will either learn incorrectly form incorrect opinions of in school if left to their own devices. However, that proves both your point and mine: it is the PARENTS' responsibility to make sure children learn things that pertain to Godliness.
I'm going to take a second to sidetrack and jump back to evolution. I really don't understand why people take offense to it so much other than for the morons who shove it down children's throats as fact when it clearly is not. Evolution is a theory - an attempt to explain how something happened which is not fully proven. I look at it and I say who knows, maybe God used evolution in making the inhabitants of this earth. Yes the Bible does say that creation was done in a week but it also says that God exists outside of time. That being true, maybe the days of that first week are like millions of years to us humans. Who's to say? I don't know cause I"m not God.
Back to the topic at hand. I would like to point out that homeschooling is not the instant fix some people may think it is. Homeschooling inevitably leads to its own problems and faults. The main problem is that as the primary teacher of your child, you limit their potential learning by your own prejudices, faults, and failings. You can buy all the educational materials you want but that still can't substitute for a live qualified person who knows his or her field intimately and can both teach and answer questions about it thoroughly. It also can't really help you teach your child math if you are terrible at math (and learning it from the book is just like a form of torture in my opinion). Shoot, I'm a prime example. I'd never have learned math well if my mom had homeschooled me. I was teaching her math and strategy by 6th grade!
I'm not going to say a lot about private schools because they also have their own problems stemming from different things. The point is that all forms of education have their pros and cons. Any form of education should be just fine assuming the parents take responsibility for guiding their children's learning, whether it's by homeschooling or simply taking the initiative to know what their children are being taught in public/private school and putting it under the "God microscope" for their children's viewing.
It's kind of late here so hopefully this all makes sense. Please excuse my rambling. I will dismount my soapbox now.
Educating Your Future Children: Public, Private, or Home (Cont.)
Posted : 1 Jun, 2011 08:51 AM
You are right; the Bible does not say that the family must teach absolutely everything to their children. To be clear, I am not advocating this position. As I stated in the second to last paragraph of my first post, "private religious schooling would be an acceptable alternative."
My main problems with public school education as it exists today are two fold: (1) the government has usurped the family's authority in determine what and from what perspective their children should be taught and (2) the public schools teach from a secular humanist worldview (man-centered) as opposed to a Christian worldview (God-centered).
Secular Humanist Worldview in Education:
1. Evolution -- God did not create man because God does not exist and because God does not exist man owes no duties to Him. Instead, out of nothing, the big bang occurred and life evolved from non-life. Existence is about death not life and is ultimately meaningless. This idea destroys the sanctity of human life as created in the image of God because man is nothing more than an evolved animal arisen from the primordial soup.
2. Homosexuality as an acceptable lifestyle -- Teaches from a perspective that implies there are no moral absolutes. Everything is ok as long as it does not "hurt" anyone else. Teaches to reject the Word of God, which says Homosexuality is a sin. And let me be clear parents should be teaching their kids to love the person, but hate the sin. All have sinned and come short of God's glory and we are no better or worse than they.
3. Every mention of God is excerpted and taken out of the curriculum and the textbooks particularly in Literature and History. Key founding documents are abridged or ignored all together to remove references to God (Mayflower Compact, Declaration of Independence, Constitution, Washington's farewell address, etc.).
4. Man-centered -- All day, five days a week it is about man's accomplishments, man's knowledge, man's superiority with no mention of God or the fact that without Him we would be nothing. If this type of education is not from a secular humanist worldview, I do not know what is!
To summarize Humanism in education here is this quote:
"Education is the most powerful ally of Humanism and every American public school is a school of Humanism. What can the theistic Sunday Schools, meeting for an hour once a week, and teaching only a fraction of the children do to steam the tide of a five day program of humanistic teaching?" - Charles Francis Potter from Humanism a New Religion (Who is himself a humanist)
While parents can still influence their children and try to correct the many errors from public school education they are fighting an uphill battle. I went to public school for several years but I was fortunate that my mom as a single parent sacrificed to send me to a private Christian school where I would be taught in a way that was honoring to God all while still being forced to pay taxes in support of a secular humanist educational system.
I am glad that your parents were so keen on teaching you things from a Biblical perspective because it is certainly an uphill battle when it comes to public school education. Unfortunately, many parents are not so determined and not so involved in their kids� lives.
While children should not be taught from a humanist perspective neither should the children be left ignorant of those ideas. We should train children not only to honor God but to be prepared to give an answer for the hope that is within them with meekness and fear. This duty implicitly includes being able to know and refute opposing worldviews.
When I say parents have a duty to educate their children I do not mean that parents should force their children where to attend college, what to major in etc. because the children are transitioning into adults and the parent's direct role decreases.
I don't want to get too sidetracked here so I won't go into evolution and your discussion concerning the length of the days of creation etc. but if you want to create another thread then we could all discuss it there.
There are pros and cons to every position but in regards to homes schooling, I believe the pros far outweigh the cons and there are many variations of home schooling that address some of the problems you mentioned.
Again, the important thing here is that it is the family's authority and responsibility to see that their children are educated in a way that is honoring to God. Public schools as they exist today are inconsistent with seeing that children are instructed in a way that honors God and children who come out of public school with a completely Biblical worldview do so despite of public education, not because of it.
The best way to ensure this done is with the parent's as the primary educators of their children. Private Christian schooling is a less preferred but acceptable alternative and the parents must be very proactive and involved in their children's education to see that they are being rightly educated.
Educating Your Future Children: Public, Private, or Home (Cont.)
Posted : 1 Jun, 2011 05:19 PM
You know Iaokim, I find it really funny that we agree on pretty much all points (and quite possibly the most important ones) but disagree on how the end result should look.
I see homeschooling as more of more con than pro but maybe it's because I never felt like the public school I attended made any effort to remove God from school. Nor did I feel like any particular worldview was forced upon me. Going to school in Amishville may have had some effect on that.
I sympathize with your point on paying taxes to a support a school system even if your child does not attend there. Though it's probably a little off topic, I believe that everyone in a community should support its schools because they exist for everyone's benefit. However, I also believe that parents and children should have more control over what schools they attend through a sort of voucher system so that no one is forced to pay to support a wreck of a school (though this isn't strictly based on the way schools approach the subject of religion, it would put more power in deciding how that affects school choice).
Anyway, I'm glad we agree at least on the important points of teaching children to follow the path laid by God. Outside of that, it really seems to be personal preference.
Educating Your Future Children: Public, Private, or Home (Cont.)
Posted : 2 Jun, 2011 07:53 PM
Yeah I think we definitely agree on a lot more than on what we disagree on.
It is true that often times in public schools they don't overtly push the humanist (man is the measure of all things) worldview. However, the simply and complete absence of God in the classrooms is often far more effective because it is so much harder to notice. For example, a student would most likely notice a teacher openly the concept of God. Controversy draws attention to something and that is the last thing people teaching from a humanist perspective want. It is much more effective to silently remove all mention of God and religion/morality than it is to openly attack it. Assuming no outside knowledge, a student would never even learn or hear the concept of a God in the public schools. He would be taught that the physical world is all there is, that man is in charge of his own life and is not subject to a higher power. The absence of Biblical worldview is a humanist worldview. Of course that is a very broad distinction and there are numerous numerous varieties of a humanist worldview.
I agree that vouchers could be better than the current system because at least it gives parents some say over how/where there children will be educated. However, it still involves government in education where they do not have the authority to exercise control over. Essentially vouchers are taxpayer money given back to the taxpayers with government stipulations and regulations attached to it. Why not just spend no money on education, lower taxes, and let the parents take their own money and educate their children where they choose without all the government involvement.
Educating Your Future Children: Public, Private, or Home (Cont.)
Posted : 10 Jun, 2011 06:33 PM
Hi Iaokim and Stegoodie,
First, I need to express to you how impressed I am that two young men of your age are actually thinking about these things now! I am impressed and would encourage more young men to follow suit. You both have obviously thought the topic through.
I will convey to you some other thoughts as well as second some of your own. We are to train up our children in the ways of the Lord. I do appreciate interpreting this to mean that I also should have the right to be as involved in my child's education as I would like.
There are many reasons to homeschool. You homeschool your child IF:
1. You would like them to excel at their own pace.
2. You would like to make sure that they are not being given false information about history, beginning with the creation of our world. (you can pay for private school education to do this also)
3. You would like them to want to learn.
4. You would like them to learn how to learn.
5. You want them to be able to become very well-rounded individuals or to develop a particular talent that has been noticed early in their life.
6. You want them to be able to learn to think for themselves and NOT to merely take what the media tells them as 'truth' (because we should ALL know by now, that the media has their own agenda whether in conjunction with the government or not ~ usually whoever is the highest bidder)
7. You would like to train them in good moral ethics (which is part of what you will be held accountable for anyway)
8. You would rather help them to understand the 'lies' of the world from you, rather than the other 5 or 6 year olds or worse yet, their teacher ~ teaching them as truths to be believed and followed.
9. You enjoy the fact that it takes a much smaller amount of time for 'school'
10. You also enjoy the fact that 'school' is much more interesting because you will assist your child by giving him the type of curriculum that will be acclimate to the type of learner that your child is. (not putting the square peg into the round hole).
11. You will enjoy that your child is adequately challenged instead of over worked with homework!!
12. You would enjoy the fact that your child can accomplish more school in less time and not only graduate sooner with higher academic achievement, but also be readily accepted into upper echelon colleges with scholarships.
13. You enjoy the fact that your family can travel or do a busy family business and have your child's education incorporated into 'everything' your family does and therefore not 'waste' any time or experience and have more fun in the process!
14. You really want your child to think outside the box!
Social issues:
1. You will not have to worry about the bathrooms and WHAT your child is going to learn there. (it is really bad, trust me)
2. You would like them to learn to be assertive.
3. You would like them to learn how to operate and participate in a family business (to understand and have hands on experience and be more likely to be ready for whatever job position they would like, a lot sooner.
4. You would enjoy that your child reaches a healthy level of maturity at a younger age while really having a childhood!!
5. You avoid having negative peer pressure for types of clothing worn, words used and every other rebellious attitude that springs forth.
6. Your child will not be coming home with every new fad that comes along in ~ clothing, language, thinking and behaviors that are disruptive to the family. (for instance girls of 12 years of age holding hands and kissing because it is the thing to do ~ one saw it on the tv and so they try it out ~ this aberrant behavior only gets worse as they get older.)
I have brought up some points that maybe you have not already expressed. What concerns me most about the government running anything, is why? Why are they involved? Why are they investing our hard earned dollars (taxes) in schools and now day cares? I think it is absolutely crazy that we sacrifice our children by placing them under another's care for up to 15 hours daily or more any age under 5! Their little minds are fully developed (the basics) by age 5. We are allowing someone who is paid minimum wage to train and input their values into our children. And how about those first steps, first words, etc.? Too many things lost with day care as well!
