Author	Thread: A wifes submission, the beauty and good it brings.
Admin	A wifes submission, the beauty and good it brings. Posted : 20 Aug, 2012 03:52 AM Brothers and Sisters, We get all confused as to what submission is in the bible, right? I was just posting on a thread and I had to hit the submit button. Anyone here have to hit the submit button as well? What are we doing when we hit the submit button? We are offering freely our thoughts and feeling on a certain topic, right? It makes sense now and this has been my sucess in my relationship my with feincee. She offers her advice , opinion, feelings etc to me and because I love her I consider and listen to her submitted thoughts. Could submission be as simple as this? YES But also from a mans point validating her submitted thoughts and from her point submitting thoughts that will easily be recieved. Many times we out of our great need to be heard try to force our thoughts on another. This is not submission. Like here their are guidelines we are called to follow in comunicating. For me in my relationship I want to hear her thoughts because i love her. My problem is that she many times holds back on her thoughts because she is fearful of hurting me. She tries to protect me from her feelings. I had this problem with my previous relationship. This time I am a strong man and once she shares with me I (do not) react out of pride or feeling of rejection to her and can show her compassion and love instead. Whenever she withholds sharing with me, she limits my being able to express love to her in what she is feeling. Also God has called a mans wife to be his helper and if she holds back in submitting her thoughts how can she be his help?Being a Husbands helper is not going and doing it by your self. That breakes down unity and seperates you from oneanother. But women have to remember your words need to come to us with ((((((respect)))))))). Many times your words come in derission or in a form of a command. When you come to a man without respect you will never be heard but you will only push away the man you seek to help. Your attitude toward him is everything. This I believe is the leading cause of abuse in relationships a woman who does not know how to approace a wounded man. Women who put their men on the defense and ultimatly at war with you. Its the difference between telling ( trying to be powerful over him) or in submission( gently submitting your advice and thoughts) A angry abusive man is a man who has been belittled all of his life and his wife belittles him as well. A abusive man is so insecure and despretly needs help from a good woman, his wife. His abuse is his way to feel powerful because deep down in side he feels powerless. But he is to afraid to look at his powerlessness. If you ladies understood the motive behind abuse maybe you could be a better helper to him. Its not to late to be his helper, The helper God has called you to be... You can go to your man and ask forgiveness for your continues rejection of him and ask forgiveness for your dissrespect to him. Men you need to go to your wife and ask forgiveness for being abusive due to your insecurities and weakness. If a Husband or wife starts here, their is hope for you. If you need further help just ask me and i would love to do so. In service of Christs body, Michael Post Reply
View Profile History	A wifes submission, the beauty and good it brings. Posted : 25 Aug, 2012 12:08 PM If a husband makes a decision without considering his wifes feelings and this causes continual hurt to his wife is he showing Christ like love to his wife? If the husband doesnt recieve his wifes submission through her expressing her thoughts and feelings to her husband is he loving his wife? Post Reply
View Profile History	A wifes submission, the beauty and good it brings. Posted : 25 Aug, 2012 12:26 PM Faiths77, they speak the truth. They do not put as we'd like to hear it, sadly not everyone is gifted with a way of saying things like your fiance... however we must see evil as it is and good as it is. If we distort the truth we can't have a love for it. Post Reply
View Profile History	A wifes submission, the beauty and good it brings. Posted : 25 Aug, 2012 12:55 PM Good questions my love, I will be interested to see when and if anyone has the courage to anwer them directly what their answer will be.:hearts: Post Reply
View Profile History	A wifes submission, the beauty and good it brings. Posted : 25 Aug, 2012 01:19 PM I think what my feancee is asking is this. We know the greatest commandment is Love right? So if a way of understanding something violates this command to love it can not be of God, Right? God is love right? So love is our standard right? I dont think any man would make a decision that would cause pain to his wife. I know that. So how is it possible for a man to make a decision alone, or final decision with out hurting his wife. Is it possible? In my experience it is not. Any decision a mans wife would be alright with will only be a decision she feels good about right? If this is the conclusion and I know it is then this would mean headship is something other, right? So ladies .........how can a man make a decision that you are not confortable with by him self ? Can he? Ladies if this is possible now is your oppertunity to teach me. How...... Show me how Ladies........Ms Marvel? Humbly , Michael Post Reply
View Profile History	A wifes submission, the beauty and good it brings. Posted : 25 Aug, 2012 01:49 PM Men are to teach men - 1 Tim 2. 11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence 12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence How do they do this? 1 Timothy 3 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works Mature women are to teach the younger women Titus 2 - BUT speak thou the things which become sound doctrine. 2 That the aged men be sober, grave, temperate, sound in faith, in charity, in patience. 3 The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things; 4 That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children 5 To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed A man seeking the counsel of a young woman on Biblical issues, not so much. I hope this is friendly and loving. I tried to keep it just Bible. Post Reply
Apostelle View Profile History	A wifes submission, the beauty and good it brings. Posted : 25 Aug, 2012 01:57 PM You know Im beginning to think the two of you are deliberately being obtuse. Show me where I, or any others on here, have said that the man is to make a decision without consulting his wife??????? Right! You cant!!! I have repeatedly said that a wife's duty is to give her opinion to her husband. Untimately though, it is the husband's duty to make the FINAL decision. If you want to give faiths77 an equal share in the headship of you marriage, LTM, my all means go ahead. But dont tell us that down is up, black is white, and right is wrong. If you do give her an equal share, then good luck in divorce court, because there will come a time when one wants to go in one direction and the other in the opposite...and it will tear you marriage apart. Ive seen it happen time and time and time again. I will give you a real life example. My cousin and his first wife were both working and had good jobs. They were a "modern" couple in that she had as much say in the marriage as he did. In 1997 she bought a new car. Her old one was falling apart. She bought a 1998 Voyager. Fourteen months later, she said she was tired of driving a "bus" and wanted another car. He said they couldnt afford it. He said they should wait until the Voyager was paid off, or at least almost paid off. She wouldnt go for his arguement. She told him that she was his equal in the marriage and that she was going to get a new car...and she did. What she didnt realize was that the dealership gave her the "trade in" price for her van, deducted from what they had already paid, and the balance was added to the new car. So, she ended up with a $25,000 car that she was going to have to pay $40,000 for. She had also been getting credit cards and lines of credit. They split up when he finally realised what she had been doing. Of course, two weeks after they split, she had a boyfriend who would buy her "nice things". The divorce became final in 2000. But, he was order to pay half of her debt. His portion? $83,000 He was also ordered to pay alimony and child support, even though their two kids lived 90% of the time with him. Post Reply
View Profile History	A wifes submission, the beauty and good it brings. Posted : 25 Aug, 2012 02:04 PM Maybe LTM has pleny money and that will not ever be a problem. lol Hopefully, their marriage will work, every Man has his own agenda. When you are a Christian we should follow God's word, works out much better for Us All. AMEN Post Reply
View Profile History	A wifes submission, the beauty and good it brings. Posted : 25 Aug, 2012 02:05 PM It's not that I think you are nothing. Here is my honest thoughts on the matter. You have found a solution in your relationship that seemingly works for you and your wife to be. You have then gone and said without hesitation that your plan will work for any and all couples and give them a great marriage. I initially admitted that there are some good thoughts in this thread. What I think you have misunderstood is that a husband is not automatically a tyrant if he holds to the biblical view of headship. This is not about church dogma and I personally dislike the idea that you claim to be challenging the mainstream. In my limited experience, I notice more people with your view and more of a feminist view. I guess we live in different areas so maybe that's why we have different perspectives. There have always been differing views on the matter and yours I would say is currently the more popular one. I don't believe your view of the word submit is popular as I've never heard that explanation until you posted it here. However your overall thoughts that headship as put forth in scripture is not important, is the predominant view of the day. You are debating a minority. I also dislike the use of analogy when speaking of Jesus' persecution. That is not what is taking place here. My big fear is that if you will take the mindset that practicality and your personal results are more important than scripture, then on what other issues will you do it? This is not a minor thing. It's about order. It's about God's desires. We shouldn't take it so lightly and make decisions off of what seemingly works in our own lives. I would also like to add that historically, the hard parts in a relationship occur after the marriage begins. You are teaching that your ideas are practical and worked for you but you aren't even married. Really I don't want to sound harsh but it is a dangerous path to venture down when you start say scripture doesn't matter. We can't just make it say what we want. Scripture says the woman is subject to the husband in everything. It doesn't say she should submit everything on her mind. Here is the thing though...A biblical husband will care about her desires. That what you seem to be missing. This is not tyranny in the sense that the hubby doesn't care for the wife. I'm urging you to consider a more biblical way. This biblical way will not destroy what God has built between you and your wife to be. His ways are higher than our ways and even if you don't understand them...they are still THE WAY. Trust in Him alone...not your practicality Post Reply
View Profile History	A wifes submission, the beauty and good it brings. Posted : 25 Aug, 2012 02:42 PM Faith, thanks for adding your thoughts. However, the bible being a living document in your estimation, seems to imply that it doesn't mean what it says. There are clear areas of metaphor in scripture. However there is not implication in Ephesians 5 that it is ever meant to be taken metaphorically. Can a passage have multiple meanings? Yes but that's an entirely different topic and not relevant here. It doesn't mean Ephesians 5 is stating that the husband is the head and is not the head at the same time. My point being that the multiple meanings of a passage will not contradict one another. If your view contradicts the scripture then you know your view is wrong. I am not the one trying to become your husband so I do not expect you to listen to me. However I would urge you to search these things out in prayer and in scripture. Ask yourself if it's really okay to apply whatever meaning you choose to the text or if God has already given a meaning to the text that he wants us to obey. I promise you that biblical headship will not make you some second class citizen with an awful marriage...as long as LTM follows his duties as a husband. A biblical view does not make him a tyrant over you and you can still bring your desires to him. There is a better way forward. I urge you to pray on these things. Post Reply
View Profile History	A wifes submission, the beauty and good it brings. Posted : 25 Aug, 2012 02:42 PM None of this answers the question. It actually stirts the question and Apos's example, where is the love expressed in your example? Yes , he made the decision and if anything him making that decision proves me right ...... Give me an example where the husband making the final decision goes well........ In your service, Michael Post Reply

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