Author	Thread: why is divorce so rampant and also a last resort to a failed marriage.
benexcel View Profile History	why is divorce so rampant and also a last resort to a failed marriage. Posted : 10 Oct, 2013 11:52 AM Why is it that ladies are not submissive to their husband. and is it right for a christian lady to seek for a divorce. Post Reply
View Profile History	why is divorce so rampant and also a last resort to a failed marriage. Posted : 11 Oct, 2013 08:32 AM Cat - You said: "both should submit to each other out of love for Christ first, and then out of love and respect for each other." Please permit me to point out that this conclusion is incorrect and not Biblical. Nowhere is a husband told to "submit to his wife". The concept of "mutual submission" is fatally flawed. Think of it this way, does Jesus "submit" to us (his church)? He does not because He is the head. We submit to him and His authority. So too is the wife's submission to her husband. Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing. Eph 5:22-24 Post Reply
Cat4Christ777 View Profile History	why is divorce so rampant and also a last resort to a failed marriage. Posted : 11 Oct, 2013 12:09 PM Benexcel, Try reading the verse just above Ephesians 5:22...specifically Ephesians 5:21. It says, "Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ." This applies to all Christians--whether married to each other or not. And Ephesians is not the only book that talks about marital relationships. There is Genesis 2:21-23 (different roles, same goals); Song of Solomon; Mark 10:5-9; and many many more. In fact, in Ephesians 5:22-24(2) speaks about a man's Spiritual Leadership in marriage, not as a master/slave arrangement. And, even if you go there, Jesus, Himself, taught that the greatest masters are sevant masters; they serve their flock, they don't just order them around like slaves. Matthew 20:32-33. And let's not forget the Bible's instruction on how a man should love his wife: Ephesians 5:25-30; Eph 5:31-33; Titus 2:6-8; Let us not forget that God's Word gives us the nature of true Love in 1 Corinthians chapter 13. That is how we are to treat each other, in all circumstances--even marriage. I hope that helps clear things up, brother Benexcel. --Cat Post Reply
View Profile History	why is divorce so rampant and also a last resort to a failed marriage. Posted : 11 Oct, 2013 12:15 PM " Ephesians 5:21. It says, "Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ." This verse is not speaking of husband/wife as subsequent verses show. Husbands should......... Love their wives ? yes. Serve their wives? yes. Submit to their wives? NO. Post Reply
View Profile History	why is divorce so rampant and also a last resort to a failed marriage. Posted : 11 Oct, 2013 12:17 PM I've never understood why women have to immediately jump to the extreme that submitting equals a tyrant/slave relationship. It's a false argument. Post Reply
DontHitThatMark View Profile History	why is divorce so rampant and also a last resort to a failed marriage. Posted : 11 Oct, 2013 12:34 PM "I've never understood why women have to immediately jump to the extreme that submitting equals a tyrant/slave relationship. It's a false argument." Probably because that is the way that men have treated the relationship throughout history.:ribbit: :peace::peace: Post Reply
View Profile History	why is divorce so rampant and also a last resort to a failed marriage. Posted : 11 Oct, 2013 01:58 PM Those that follow what the Bible teaches on the matter and don't argue and dispute with it don't seem to have too much trouble with this concept. I know many couples that follow the proper model. Please refer to my very first comment on this thread again. Post Reply
teach_ib View Profile History	why is divorce so rampant and also a last resort to a failed marriage. Posted : 11 Oct, 2013 05:26 PM Cat, great response. :applause: Unfortunately, some, not all, Christian and non-Christian men forget about the rest of the directions in the Bible. The verses that talk about how we are to interact with Christians don't disappear or no longer apply once the wedding vows end. If more husbands and wives would treat their spouses as they did before they were married, they would have better success. I know many couples who are saved and unsaved that have respectful, successful marriages mainly because they treat each other with the same level of respect, not as a master/slave relationship. Unfortunately, some 'Christian' marriages are a master/slave relationship where the expectation is the woman stays at home, has no money, and does only what the husband directs while he goes out with his friends, buys what he wants, and ignores the needs of the family. I have seen some EXTREME examples over the years and while the 'marriage' continues, it is not a happy, God-pleasing marriage. Cat, you are correct that Jesus served the disciples, the best example was in washing their feet. Post Reply
teach_ib View Profile History	why is divorce so rampant and also a last resort to a failed marriage. Posted : 11 Oct, 2013 05:34 PM Submission is probably one of the most misunderstood and misused precept, especially in a marriage. - Submission is the giving or yielding to authority...we all do it every day. � - Men and women�submit to the authorities of government, local, city, state, etc. If they don't they face the consequences of fines or jail or even death. -�They submit to bosses at work...follow their rules, their guidelines, etc. -�Students submit to the authority of their teachers/principals. - Children submit to the authority of their parents. In Genesis 16:9, the angel told Hagar to submit to Sarah. �In 2 Samuel 22:45 & Psalm 18:44, David said strangers would submit to him and Psalm 66:3 David speaks of God's enemies submitting to God. In 1 Corinthians 16:16, Paul talks about submitting to the ministry. **** Hebrews 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief; for that is unprofitable for you. James 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. 1 Peter 2:13 Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake; whether it be to the king, as supreme.... I Peter 5:5 Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. �Yea all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble. **** We don't even think twice about these principles of submission. �I skipped the references to submission in marriage intentionally. �I will address them later. ****� 1 Corinthians 14:40 Let all things be done decently and in order. ***** We have rules and authorities to keep things from turning to chaos. As a person that has authority over others, we should not forget to treat those under us the same way we want to be treated...it is not uncommon for the roles to be reversed. There are even verses to guide how we should treat those under us... ***** Ephesians 6:4 and, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonish of the Lord. Colossians 3:21 Fathers, provoke not your children to anger, lest they be discouraged. Hebrews 10:24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works. ****** Acts 5:29 Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men. ****** Man's rules sometimes are at odds/go against God's law/direction. So I skipped the verse on submission that involve marriage because if we understand the precept of submission in general, it won't be so hard in a marriage. No one really likes to be told what to do. �It's in our nature from birth to resist...toddlers try their parents...doing what they're told not to do. �Teenagers try the bounds of their parents' authority. �Even as Christians we don't always follow the rules of our church or the speed laws or sometimes we disobey God...sin. So it's not surprising that submission in a marriage is often a challenge. So let's look at some of those 'marriage verses' ***** Ephesians 5:21 Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God. 22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. 23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church; and he is the Saviour of the body. 24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing. 25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it. 28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. �He that loveth his wife loveth himself 35 Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband. Colossians 3:18 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord 19 Husbands, love your wives and be not bitter against them. ***** As you can see in each of the passages where submission of the wife is addressed, there is direction to the husband, too. �Too often, men think these verses give them unlimited authority over their wives...that they can tell the women to do whatever and the women have to blindly obey them. �The tendency is to forget there are all the other verses that apply on how to treat people, deferring one to another, being respectful, kind, tenderhearted, etc. Sometimes the thought is, now you're my wife so you are my slave and you have to do whatever I say...Well that is not the example Christ set. As a wife, we should want to please our husbands and are instructed to give them respect...this should be easy because he should be showing love to the wife. �It should be natural to desire to please the one you love and whom loves you. It's when there is imbalance in the relationship that causes submission and acts of love to be difficult to achieve. �If the husband is an authoritarian, never seeks the advice or involves the wife in decisions, the wife will not understand and begin to have difficulty in submitting to his authority...think about the boss at work that just sits and tells others what to do, but never does anything or has no clue about what to do...the employees become resentful...so is the husband /wife relationship. �A good leader seeks advice, listens, and is inclusive in decisions, so should a husband. �The ultimate decision is the husband's; however, a decision based on discussion will be better received. If the husband is not living up to Christian standards, the wife will often have difficulty submitting, following the decisions/authority of the husband. �If he stops going to church, is cruel to her or the children, or does other things that are in opposition to God's direction, the wife will have to balance God's rules against the husband's directions. �There are times that the wife could have to 'disobey' the husband in order to obey God. �Submission is not blindly following...it's about following Christ's example. Post Reply
View Profile History	why is divorce so rampant and also a last resort to a failed marriage. Posted : 11 Oct, 2013 05:49 PM ......And all of that just to say what's already been said in much simpler and more concise terms by the verses that we're already quoted. :laugh: Wives submit to your husbands and husbands love your wives. Oddly enough, a very similar conversation came up the other day on another forum with largely Reformed men and women. The outcome was quite different with many of the women arguing for the women's duty to submit. One's theology will ultimately determine one's course of actions. Right theology will lend itself to right actions (in most cases). Conversely, wrong theology will lead to wrong actions. Sadly, too often here there is just too much vain disputing against God. It's as if people want to be free to pick and choose which verses they like and ignore the ones that they don't. Post Reply
teach_ib View Profile History	why is divorce so rampant and also a last resort to a failed marriage. Posted : 11 Oct, 2013 06:21 PM Yes, too often people pick and choose what they will or will not follow. I choose to follow all the verses that apply to how we are to interact as Christians and non-Christians because they all apply in a maariage, not just the ones specifically directed to husbands and wives. Not just the ones that certain church 'leaders' want to pick and choose to focus on. the bible is clear on submitting one to another, treating each other with respect. Once again your post in response to mine is meant to provoke me whiich is in direct opposition to the verses posted about how to interact with others. I certainly hope you apply the same rules to yourself when you post on threads so as not to be double minded. Post Reply

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